Tag: BCEP

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Meet the Mazamas

Milton enrolled in our Intermediate Climbing School in 2016. He had previous mountaineering experiences climbing in Colombia and Peru, and some rock climbing in Georgia and North Carolina.

He is part of our Leadership Development team and has helped out with our Basic Climbing Education Program, ICS and crevasse rescue skill builders. When not outdoors, he works as a bilingual information systems specialist.

Name:  Milton Diaz

Pronouns:  He/ Him/ His 

Year Joined Mazamas: 2016

Present-day outdoor activities:  Mountaineering, climbing, splitboarding, snowboarding

What’s your earliest outdoor memory?  Climbing with my dad in Colombia when I was 12.  We climbed Nevado El Ruiz, which is 5,389 meters with his group of friends.  After that, I got hooked climbing snow peaks in the Sierrra Nevada El Cocuy.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? I was looking for a mountaineering club when I moved to Portland in 2015.  I could not enroll in BCEP because I missed the registration date, but I signed up for ICS and then got hooked climbing the volcanoes in Washington and Oregon.  After ICS I took the Backcountry Ski class with the Mazamas and started doing more backcountry tours in the North Cascades, Mt. Saint Helens and Mt Hood. Last year I did  the Steep Snow and Ice class, and I’ve been climbing more technical routes,  also doing some ice climbing in Hyalite Canyon and started leading my own climbs like El Dorado.

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Take a mountaineering class like BCEP that teaches you the basics like self arrest, climbing techniques, rappelling, and knots, and then take ICS if you want to be on more challenging climbs and start leading your own climbs with friends.  

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? I got inspired when I read climbing reports on Facebook and the Mazama Bulletin.  I like to see people going outside and challenging themselves doing what they love.

 What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? My favorite book is Touching the Void by Joe Simpson. It is a true inspiration for all, what he did to survive after falling in a crevasse, even crawling on a glacier alone!  

 What’s on your adventure bucket list?  All the peaks in the North Cascades.  So far I have climbed Mt Shuksan, El Dorado, Ruth Mountain and some failed attempts to Sahale but there are some many beautiful mountains out there that I want to climb. I also want to climb the North Ridge of Mt Baker and the Kautz route in Mt Rainier.

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Meet the Mazamas

Jeremy grew up on a lake in Minnesota, fishing and camping with his family. He spent three years in Bozeman, MT in college before permanently moving to the West Coast. He met a great group of friends through the Mazamas and our Basic Climbing Education Program, and now he spends most of his free time rock climbing or mountaineering with them. 

Name:  Jeremy Luedtke

Year Joined Mazamas: 2020

Present-day outdoor activities:  Alpine and sport climbing. I recently summited Mount Shasta with Gary Bishop and have multiple ascents planned for the remainder of the summer. I have also been doing more outdoor rock climbing with a great group of people I have met through The Mazamas.

What’s your earliest outdoor memory: I grew up in Minneapolis & my mom was from the north woods closer to Canada. Her family still lived in northern Minnesota and almost every weekend in the summer we would go camping near her hometown and hang out with her family. My earliest outdoor memories were learning how to fish from my grandpa during these trips. He was a cranky old Norwegian fellow who was happiest outdoors and loved to fly fish. While he was always gruff (even around his grandson), he showed his affection by always taking the time to take me on adventures in the woods and teach me about it.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization?  After I moved to Portland, I ended up working with a Mazamas member who was on the Lodge Committee. We would chat at work about getting outside and into the mountains. He told me about the Mazamas, and said I would enjoy it.

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Take advantage of the educational opportunities that Mazamas offers, such as the “gym-to-crag” class or the Sunday Skill-Builders, or volunteer to help with BCEP. Most of my friends, and all of my climbing partners are Mazamas that I met through these opportunities.

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? Honestly, it is the instructors and volunteer assistants at Mazamas classes that I take. Personally, I believe that climbing fun & climbing safely go hand-in-hand. The instructors at Mazamas classes have so much passion about sharing both technical skills and safety best practices, that it inspires me to get outside even more.

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? Alpine Savvy, @alpinesavvy. It is both a website and an Instagram account. It is an encyclopedia of climbing knowledge. Definitely a resource that all climbers should subscribe to.

What’s on your adventure bucket list? Easter Island. I know it sounds funny because I don’t think you can do any climbing there, you just walk around and look at stuff. The fact that the island is so remote (the nearest inhabited land to it is 1,200 miles away), and filled with over 1000 giant stone heads is fascinating. Of course, it is also off the coast of Chile, and I heard there is some halfway decent climbing in Patagonia I could do on my way there…

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Meet the Mazamas

Emily is a self-described thrill-seeker who loves to explore the beauty of the Pacific Northwest. They’re fairly new to mountaineering, but summited Mt. Shasta in 2022 and are looking to add more peaks to their resume post-BCEP, which they credit with “absolutely changing my life.” 

Name: Emily McEntire

Pronouns: They/Them

Year Joined Mazamas: 2021

Present-day outdoor activities: Canyoneering!!! Mountaineering, Climbing, Hiking, Paddle-boarding, Exploring

What’s your earliest outdoor memory? Running around in the miles of forest behind the townhomes I lived in. I’m an only child, and I’d spend hours by myself exploring every little corner of that place just zen-ing with the wind and the trees. There was a frog pond nearby as well, and I’d go sit and listen to the sounds of all the creatures that lived there.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? I was looking for community when I moved back to the West, and a hiking friend mentioned BCEP. I had also been researching Zion National Park where I learned about Canyoneering, and after I saw the Mazamas offered that as well, it was a done deal. Haha

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Live and explore!!! I’ve heard so many people say “I wish I could.” You can!! It’s yours for the taking!! Just, approach it with respect, and of course safety in mind.

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? People with a thirst for life charge my batteries. People who live life with enthusiasm and compassion, and I’ve found more than many of those people within the Mazamas. There’s so much experience, and ambition, and miles underfoot, it’s a blessing to be surrounded by, and get to adventure with so many of my own personal heroes!!

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why?  Lately I’ve been reading “The Rock Warrior’s Way.” I try not to spend too much time on social media, but I do love seeing everyone’s adventures on Insta and Facebook. I’m always tickled to see everyone’s summer smiles!!

What’s on your adventure bucket list? Oh there’s so many!!! I grew up in the Tacoma area, so Mt. Rainier is at the top of my mountaineering dream list, and I’m slowly planning a canyoneering trip to Zion next year. The crystal caves down in Mexico caught my eye as well. Really I just want to rappel the world!! Haha

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Meet the Mazamas

Joshua moved to the Pacific Northwest about 10 years ago, and in the past few years he’s done a lot of climbing with the Mazamas through our Basic Climbing Education Program (BCEP) and Intermediate Climbing School (ICS) programs. When not out in the wild, he works to create more equitable, prosperous and resilient communities. 

Joshua also has been instrumental in creating the Queerzamas, an affinity group within the Mazamas for queer and/or trans folks and was part of our first-ever queer BCEP team.

Name:  Joshua Baker

Pronouns:  he, him, his

Year Joined Mazamas: 2022 

 Present-day outdoor activities: Mountaineering, rock climbing, hiking, backpacking  

What’s your earliest outdoor memory? Growing up on a dairy farm in northern New York – cows out to pasture are an early outdoor memory. In terms of outdoor recreation, ice skating on a frozen pond at my grandparents farm with my sisters and cousins is an early memory I have.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? I first learned about the Mazamas about a decade ago when I worked for the nonprofit, Focus the Nation. Each summer we held an annual climate focus retreat at the Lodge and went on Mazama-led hikes up to Elliot Glacier area. It wasn’t until I had a couple friends who did BCEP in 2019 that I decided I wanted to get involved in the Mazamas though. 

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Find what brings your joy in the outdoor community. 

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? Historically I’ve been a solitary creature – particularly when it comes to outdoor activities. More and more I have found inspiration, comfort, and enjoyment in the community building aspects of my outdoor pursuits. That’s why I’m particularly excited to be part of the new Queerzamas affinity space.  Queerzamas will also be marching in the Pride Parade on July 16 – hope to see you there!

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? For folx who’ve spent a good amount of time around me the past few years, they  know I’m a bit obsessed with beavers and their importance to ecosystems in the West (and that they are adorable). A lot of my passion stems from reading Ben Goldfarb’s  “Eager: The Surprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter.”

What’s on your adventure bucket list? In addition to the mountains, I love the Oregon High Desert. I’m slowly chipping away at visiting, hiking, and volunteering on environmental stewardship trips to sites along the Oregon Desert Trail and across High Desert. I’m hoping to get out to the Owyhee Canyonlands for an adventure soon!

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Meet the Mazamas

Born and raised in Baltimore, Md., Koko moved to Portland in 2013. She loves to hike and climb and considers the outdoors a meaningful, meditative space. To her, mountaineering is less about climbing the next big thing and more about showing up to be in supportive community, with curiosity, to have fun, be safe, and find joy in every tiny victory within. She is very passionate about and committed to diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging in the outdoors. Inspired by her time in nature, Koko also is an artist who creates many mountain-themed pieces.

Name:  Koko Olszewski

Pronouns:  she/her

Year Joined Mazamas: 2017

 Present-day outdoor activities:  Mountaineer, Hiking, Kayaking, Crabbing

 What’s your earliest outdoor memory? Biking along the NCR trail from Maryland to the PA border with my uncle during the summer

 How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? My bestie and I got early season permits to the Enchantments in 2016 and didn’t feel equipped to climb Assgard Pass in the snow but seeing everyone attempt it made me want to learn skills to go higher and see more! I found mountaineering during a really hard transitional time in my life and it really helped remind me of my own strength again and find some great community. 

 As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? You belong here just as you are. The outdoors are such a healing space and I want everyone who wants to be a part of that to feel like they belong, because you do. Period.

What activities/situations/people most inspire you?  My friends inspire me a lot and many are doing super badass things in the community. Random acts of kindness and wildflower hikes fill up my serotonin stores. 

 What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why?  Ted Lasso- my dad is a soccer coach and it is both hilarious and wholesome and the character development makes my heart swell. Team Roy+Jamie besties forever. 

 What’s on your adventure bucket list? Trekking in Peru, Tatras in Poland, Mount Athabasca and pretty much anything in Canada, climbing in the Tetons, Patagonia

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Meet the Mazamas

Hailing from the high scablands of eastern Washington Joe has bounced around the Pacific Northwest his entire life. As a creative director/designer Joe creates websites, motion graphics, brand identities and advertising for clients big and small. These days, his work primarily helps Native American tribes and their various entities. When not pushing pixels, Joe is an accomplished musician. He spent most of his life playing drums in all kinds of bands, touring the country until chronic illness put an end to that. 

Joe’s foray into the outdoors and mountaineering began as a way for him to deal with a chronic condition called Fibromyalgia. He’s an open-book about his experiences with the medical system, trauma and dealing with “invisible” conditions that affect him daily. He took BCEP in 2019 (Levis/Bodien Mountain Bluebirds!), ICS in 2021 (Dwelle) and is currently a provisional climb leader. He’s a dog lover with an affinity for Brachycephalic breeds.

Name:  Joe Preston

Pronouns:  He/Him

Year Joined Mazamas: 2019

Present-day outdoor activities: Climbing, hiking, camping, etc. 

What’s your earliest outdoor memory? I was an “indoor” kid—playing video games/Legos, etc. So the earliest memory I’ve got in the outdoors must have been when I was in first or second grade. I was dragged to the soggy Washington coast to “hunt” geoducks. Of course this meant I had to bring my brand spankin’ new Batman slip-ons—the left one was promptly stuck in the mud. My mom made me leave it and carried me away crying.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? From my mid-20s to my mid-30s I was on a medical rollercoaster of misdiagnosis regarding some chronic conditions I deal with—May is national Fibromyalgia awareness month. My wife wrote a moving piece about that period. During which I stumbled onto some mountaineering books and documentaries and felt a calling. Later a coworker mentioned that their partner was taking this class called BCEP. 

I took BCEP in 2019 (Levis/Bodien) and the experience was so transformative for me physically, mentally and emotionally that I’ve been volunteering, climbing and taking classes with the organization every year since—this year being my first as the BCEP Committee Chair and co-leading a BCEP team. I love this organization, the people involved and the mission.

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Take BCEP and join the Mazamas!

I’m a firm believer that the mountains and wilderness are spiritual and healing places, not sports arenas. Don’t be so eager to check the boxes on your list or reach the summit that you miss the experiences.

I also believe that the mountains are for everyone, so be supportive and encouraging to everyone you pass on the trail. You’d be amazed how much impact a little positivity can have on someone.

What activities/situations/people most inspire you?  I’m inspired by artists, musicians, people who overcome adversity, people who are kind and the crazy notion that we are flying through space on a beautifully amazing and mysterious rock. Stay gold!

I’m constantly inspired by our Mazama climb leaders and other volunteers who give their time to help others.

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? Books: Man without a country-Vonnegut, Savage Arena-Tasker, Art of Freedom-McDonald, When the Moon Turns to Blood-Sottile

Movies: The Last Starfighter, Life Aquatic, Metanoia, way too many to list ha.

TV Shows: Twin Peaks, The Office, Trailer Park Boys, The Woodwright’s Shop

Social media: Dogs!

What’s on your adventure bucket list? I was recently promoted to a provisional climb leader. I’m working my way through our leadership development program with the aim of helping other folks get into the outdoors that suffer from chronic illness, trauma, etc. Beyond that just having adventures with my friends, my partner and my dogs. Spending as many days as possible in the mountains.

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Meet the Mazamas

Forest grew up in Seattle, lived in Bellingham, on Orcas Island, and in Australia. He moved to Portland in 2010, where he teaches high school current events and civics/government for Portland Public Schools. Forest is a registered member by blood of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, he is part Chickasaw and also white. He is working his way through the Mazamas Leadership Development program to become a climb leader and has set a goal of leading all 16 of the NW Peaks.

Name:  Forest Brook Menke-Thielman

Pronouns:  He/Him

Year Joined Mazamas: 2019

Present-day outdoor activities:  Climbing, Hiking, Skiing, Running (road/trail), Cycle Touring (though not in awhile), General Alpinism, New to Ice Climbing, occasional kayak/canoe excursion. 

What’s your earliest outdoor memory? Probably complaining to my parents that I hate the beach… I’ve changed. 

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? I looked up how to climb Hood online and somehow came to the Advanced Snow and Ice class.  That was what I wanted to take originally, but I realized I had to start at the basics, so I enrolled in BCEP. 

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Do your research. It’s free to talk to people that have experience with weather conditions and gear, like Rangers, folks at the Mountain Shop, other Mazamas, etc. While remote outdoor activities can be inherently dangerous, many people that get significantly hurt or die just weren’t prepared for the weather, or to get lost, or didn’t know how to use the gear they had or didn’t have.  

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? Pick one. Currently ice climbing.  I didn’t have a chance to get down to Ouray or Hyalite this year like I had originally planned, and I have been supremely jealous of everyone’s photos who did. 

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? The_Govy500 on Instagram; good reason to take 35 back through Hood River. 

What’s on your adventure bucket list? Mount Kenya (the true summit) for sure.  It just looks so awesome, so remote, and so challenging. It’s like 22 pitches of alpine trad. Better start training!

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Meet the Mazamas

This Mazama, like so many other members, spends as much time as possible in the outdoors. He divides his time recreating and volunteering with the Mazamas, and running his own adventures through his company, Loco Por La Ventura.

He has been instrumental in launching and continuing the Mazamas first all-Latino Basic Climbing Education Program team and a Latino Affinity Group. He aims to introduce as many Latinos as possible to the natural splendors of the Pacific Northwest and beyond.

Name:   Anibal Rocheta

Pronouns:  He/ Him/His

Year Joined Mazamas: 2015

Present-day outdoor activities:  Mountaineering, rock climbing, bouldering, canyoneering, spelunking, hiking, backpacking, outdoor education.

What’s your earliest outdoor memory? I lived the first two years of my childhood around the mountains with my grandma, which was my first and memorable connection with nature and the outdoor environment.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? I’ve been teaching and being outdoors in my lovely country Venezuela for the last 15 years and then moved to the USA in 2015.

I heard about the Mazamas through google when I came to Portland. At that time, I had no idea how to continue my mountaineering/climbing development. Then I just showed up at the Mazamas’ front desk, and a kind person (btw I don’t remember her name) oriented me on how to move on with my adventurous spirit.

Now I’m part of the process of climbing, volunteering, and teaching the Latino community how to introduce outdoor activities into their lives and learn at the same time with the Mazamas.

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Please check referral pages, read a book, and look for people with interests in common. If you are in PDX, please visit the Mazamas and they will help out. Also, if you want to practice Spanish and know about adventure, I have a dedicated website for outdoors (just check out www.locoporlaaventura.com)

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? Pick one: I am very inspired by passionate and driven people who help other people to move forward. I admire those who show the safe and enjoyable mountaineering world, especially Ueli Steck. He was a Swiss mountaineer who pushed human limits in many ways. He was a great inspiration to me.

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? IG @colinobrady is an account of a local climber who crosses Antarctica solo and also he is a motivational speaker with an awesome emotional history. He is an incredible human being.

What’s on your adventure bucket list? I climbed Mt.Urus Este (Peru) in 2013, and I hope to climb Denali, Aconcagua, and a few wild peaks of the Alaska Range mountains. I also would love to hike the Pacific Crest Trail at some point.

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Meet The Mazamas

We are launching an occasional Friday feature. We’re just getting started, but we hope y’all want to learn more about the Mazamas. If you are a member and wish to participate, the questions will remain the same, so drop your responses and a photo of yourself in an email to ginabinole@mazamas.org

We’re kicking things off with Ali Koch, co-founder & director of adventure for Peak Recovery , which through the Alano Club of Portland has partnered with the Mazamas and is sponsoring a nine-member Basic Climbing Education Program (BCEP) team this year.

Name: Ali Marie Koch

Year Joined Mazamas: 2015

Present-day outdoor activities: splitboarding, mountaineering, snowboarding, hiking, snowshoeing, outdoor yoga

What’s your earliest outdoor memory (can be anything—iceskating, hiking, sledding, biking, fishing, fort building): My mom teaching me to ski on Mickey Mouse skis at the age of 3 in Lake Tahoe and playing in tide pools near our home in San Francisco.

How did you first hear about the Mazamas, and what prompted you to engage with the organization? My mom did BCEP in 2008 and joined the Mazamas. She then started climbing all kinds of mountains with Mazamas and eventually started volunteering as a hike leader. She’s the one who encouraged  me to start hiking to suppport my mental and physical wellness. She took me up my first glaciated summit in 2015.

As more people seek to recreate outdoors, what advice would you offer them? Find an outdoor mentor (or a few) and ask them to show you the ropes. In addition to my mom, my dear friend and fellow Mazama, John Creager, has been an amazing mentor to me!

What activities/situations/people most inspire you? Pick one. I am inspired by people who remain humble as they accomplish amazing feats. I am also inspired by other people in mental health or substance use recovery who use nature and movement as medicine.

What is your favorite book/movie/TV show/social media account that you follow and why? IG @mountainsformentalhealth an account run by a therapist who climbs mountains to raise awareness around mental health and suicide prevention

What’s on your adventure bucket list? I climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro in 2019, and I hope to climb Aconcagua, the tallest peak in South America soon. #1 on my bucket list is Vinson Massif, the tallest mountain in Antarctica.

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Alano Club & The Mazamas Team Up for Peak Recovery

Ali Marie & Susan Koch on Dog Mountain. Photo supplied by Ali Marie Koch

In her 20s, Ali Marie Koch struggled with anxiety, an eating disorder, depression and panic attacks. 

“I tried a lot of different things to make myself feel better,” Ali recalls. But nothing helped. She even succumbed to her suicidal thoughts with a failed attempt. “When I found myself in a place of hopelessness, I knew I had to create a path back to wellness.”

That path led her to the Mazamas. Well, actually her mother, Susan Koch, a 2008 Basic Climbing Education Program (BCEP) graduate, hike leader and Guardian Peaks award recipient, shepherded her to the organization.

“I didn’t think there were other people like me who were happy on a hiking trail and not walking at the mall,” Susan says. “But I just fell in love with climbing and hiking, and the Mazamas were so kind and made me feel so welcome.”

Susan, a physician with Kaiser, wanted to at least try and expose Ali to the outdoor experiences that positively transformed her life decades before. They began hiking together. Susan waited until Ali’s strength and endurance increased and the wildflowers were peaking. Then she brought Ali up Old Snowy. 

“When I stood on top of that mountain, I felt a sense of strength and inner peace I’ve never felt before,” Ali says. “I was connected to something bigger than myself…I thought there was a secret sauce here, which can lead to mental and physical wellness.”

Now 11 years into her recovery, Ali is an active Mazama who enjoys snowboarding, climbing and split boarding. She also aims to offer up some of that “secret sauce” to next year’s BCEP students via the Alano Club of Portland, the largest and oldest recovery center in the United States. Peak Recovery, a project of Alano, supports people in mental health and substance use recovery with free outdoor movement-based programming rooted in a true love of nature.

With Ali as program manager, Peak Recovery is excited to partner with the Mazamas and fund nine BCEP students in 2023 who identify as being in mental health and/or substance use recovery. Peak Recovery will cover the cost of the class and provide transportation in a 9-passenger Sprinter van. After the class, participants in the Peak Recovery cohort will be gifted a membership to the Mazamas to continue on their mountaineering journey.

“The ethos of Alano and Peak Recovery is in line with the Mazamas,” says Joe Preston, BCEP committee chair. “It’s the kind of partnership that will help us be more inclusive and welcoming, and we all want to see efforts like this expand every year.”

In 2022, BCEP put together several affinity teams, including an all-Latino team, an LGBTQ team and a sober team. The Peak Recovery partnership is an 18-month pilot program that Ali and Brent Canode, co-founder and Alano’s executive director, hope will become an ongoing partnership with the Mazamas.

“There’s a popular saying, and one of my favorite truisms in the behavioral health field, which goes like this: ‘The opposite of addiction is connection.’ At Alano Club of Portland we’ve taken that idea a bit further, recognizing that the point of connection must be meaningful and authentic for true community to grow and flourish,” Canode says. “Like most things in life, recovery is not a

One-size fits all journey, and those points of connection must speak in a way that compels a person to reach out and then remain on that path. That’s why we are thrilled to bring Peak Recovery to our community in partnership with the Mazamas, another legacy non-profit with a deep history of service and impact in Oregon.”

Susan and Ali credit the Mazamas in part for the happy, healthy lives they lead today, exposing them to a community of people passionate about movement and time in nature, tightening their family bond with trips that included the summit of Mt. Kilimanjaro and highlighting how resilient they are as women in the healthcare field.

“It’s been such a privilege to spend time in nature with other Mazamas, some of whom we now feel are like family,” Ali says. “It’s now a privilege to light this fire, to share the transformative, healing powers of mountains with others.”

  • Learn more and register for the course at  Peak Recovery under the Mountaineering section for the “Mazama + Peak Recovery” BCEP team.
  • Learn more about BCEP and join the BCEP Info Night webinar at 6:30 p.m. Jan. 11.
  • Applications will go live January 18th, and applications close February 9th
  • Anyone applying for these 9 spots on the “Mazama + Peak Recovery” BCEP team will all be in the same cohort (which will be led by James Jula from the Mazamas BCEP leader team)